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Improve translator experience/efficiency #7567
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I'm aware that oTrance might not be the best solution. But it still was a step forward compared to the system "before". Nevertheless I'm open for changes regarding the translations. @hansfn Are you active on one of the mentioned systems? Which one would you prefer? I'll try to evaluate those systems the next days. @piwik/core-team any thoughts/comments? |
I like translatewiki.net - it works great and is the most open solution (of the two). There are of course many other options, Launchpad (for translations) is used a lot. If you prefer a self-hosted solution there is Pootle and the new kid on the block - Weblate with tight Git integration. To make a choice, I guess setup cost (time) and workflow cost is important to consider. All of these solutions are better than oTranCe. PS! I of course prefer using Virtaal, but online translation makes it easier for people to contribute. |
I took a look at Transifex. It's quite amazing so far and easy to use.
I also took a short look at translatewiki. It's an option aswell. But it doesn't have that much features as Transifex. Also it might not be so easy to use for users not having a technical background. |
I'm glad you liked Transifex. From you feedback I'm starting to hope that you'll be able replace oTranCe in the near future. From a translator's perspective Transifex and Translatewiki are similar to use and has the same features. (I logged in to both services right now to refresh my opinion.) On which basis do you think Translatewiki "might not be so easy to use for users not having a technical background"? Just wondering, I'm fine with using Transifex too :-) |
We still need to discuss that in @piwik/core-team, but I would be happy in switching to an alternative. For me translatewiki has too much of a wiki. And even for me transifex was easier to handle. |
Just to repeat: I'm 110% fine with using Transifex. It seems to have more features and it is easier to manage. Anyway, just for completeness I have attached two screenshots. Maybe I prefer the translation UI on Translatewiki because it's simpler. (Getting to the translation UI is probably easier on Transifex.) Transifex: Translatewiki: |
Hi guys, I guess it's quite a lot of work to rewrite all our tools currently using oTrance. I'm not sure yet it is worth it.... we didn't get any complain from the translators. What are the current problems of oTrance? What would be the advantages of switching to another tool? |
Not getting any complains does not mean the tool is good. I already had a few and there could be more users active... Advantages of using Transifex:
Regarding the rewrite of those tools we are using. They are doing stuff that might easily be possible using the Transifex API. Tasks that would need to be done to migrate to Transifex:
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My words exactly ;-) I guess the main reason you don't get that many complaints is that many people don't know there exist much better tools. I can only talk for the Norwegian Bokmål translation, but with better tools I would have translated much more. The major benefit from using Translatewiki, Transifex and similar tools is TM - Translation Memory. That enables translation suggestions, auto-translation, real crowdsourcing since translations from other projects/people also are available. Of course there is some work rewriting your tools, but it seems to be some benefits too - looking at the list provided by sgiehl. |
What are the main problems with oTrance currently? |
But the main problem is that currently there are not so many users active on oTrance. Many users have registered but never translated anything. (Not sure why, but it might be caused by the UI which is not very easy to handle.) |
I did some translating for my native language, however, sometimes I can't see the context of the part that needs translation. I noticed some others had that as well. It's not possible to change an already translated part that needs 'rework'. I don't know if that might be possible in the other tools? |
I think I have answered that indirectly be describing the benefits (for a translator) of switching to any of the two tools I have mentioned. But, to put it very short: oTrance is wasting translator resources. Using oTrance is like writing code with Notepad. If Piwik developers switch to using Notepad, I'm fine with translators using oTrance ;-) |
It's very important for us to make Translators happy and make Piwik translations look great for users. Anything we can do to significantly improve translators life is important! We will therefore consider this change and I'll discuss it with @sgiehl 👍 |
After discussing with @mattab, we are happy to announce that our translations will be managed using transifex in the future. It will take one or two weeks until all todos will be done and the switch will officially be announced, but I've already created our project on transifex and imported most of the already available translations. You may already feel free to join our project: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/piwik/ |
@sgiehl I'm the French Translator of Piwik. (well the First one)
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Changes done on github in the base translations (english) will automatically be synced to transifex, but changes in other translations will not directly appear on github, but you can use your github account to login on transifex. |
Was it maybe meant whether the changes of the translations appear under the user's github name as a commit basically? Something like this would be cool if possible as it gives more visibility to the translators. Maybe it would be good to have a one or two weeks trial run with some translators before actually announcing it? But ignore me if not needed and we're confident that this is the right tool, I'm not into it those tools and the process around this etc and I know you already had a look. 👍 Do you mind making me a maintainer there? I just requested a language under |
I've added you as a maintainer |
Thx! It might be worth to ask one or two more translators for feedback re the tool. I had some troubles using it and found it sometimes a bit hard to use. Many clicks etc, mainly because of the packages. For example you can't just get all untranslated keys or you can't search for a key across packages etc. But I might see it rather from a developer view than a translator view. It's more important that a translator can use it than me :) Other tools are probably worse :) Do I get this right that we no longer have to add new keys there? At least I didn't find a way to add one. That'd be awesome :) |
Feedback is welcome for sure. You can select "all resources" in translation mode. That way you should be able to see and search over all resources... Adding keys is not necessary anymore. I've set up a resource for each language file and added the github raw url from master as update path. So every change done on master will automatically be synced to transifex. Keys will thus also be automatically removed and updated. The TM (translation memory) of transifex will remember all translations that did exists. So if we remove a translation today and would readd it some days after, transifex will automatically readd all translations (if the text of the original matches 100%). That also applies for duplicate translations or if the key changes (e.g. when moved to another resource) |
Awesome. Didn't notice that. Also re the automatic adding /removing keys 👍 |
alright @sgiehl you can add me to the French language with my github account, I'm willing to test it :) |
@baywet could you please sign up on transifex using your github account? |
@sgiehl done, I also requested to join the French translation team. |
approved |
Ok I just tested it for 2 translations it's way better than the other one. Should I keep translating on the new one or wait for the migration before using it more? |
@baywet Feel free to keep on using the new tool. Any feedback is welcome. Maybe you also have some thoughts about how to setup/implement the review process |
Tested the new translation tool, I must say I like it much more than the old one, in particular the ability to see the translated strings while translating another one. |
First, I'm really happy that my request (this issue) lead somewhere. Thank you, Piwik team. Secondly, I have just requested access to Norwegian Bokmål. (I'm hansfn on Transifex too.) @sgiehl Before we spend much time thinking about a review process we should observer if many language team get multiple members ;-) When the teams has many members, experienced translators (long term members on Transifex maybe) can be assigned the review role. @RMastop The Norwegian translators have decided to use the informal/friendly version, but then very, very few in Norway use the formal/polite version. You really have to discuss this with other Dutch translators. |
…o determine which resources needs to be updated
@sgiehl just finished updating the French translation. The experience is much better, especially when considering the glossary thing which allows you to have consistant translations for redoundant terms. |
The migration to Transifex has been announced in the blog post: Announcement of a new Translation platform for Piwik translators: Transifex - kuddos @sgiehl |
Nice! Guess we are almost done with this one then. I'll improve some parts of my pull request, and after merging I think this ticket can be closed. If anyone has suggestions on how to improve our transifex usage, feel free to send us an email, message on transifex or simply create an issue on github. |
If you grow tired of Transifex one day: Our TranslationPad is free for FLOSS projects. :) |
…o determine which resources needs to be updated
Great to see piwik coming on Transifex guys. Happy to have you! Let us know if you need help. 👍 |
@glezos thx for the welcome. If we need help I'll get in touch with you. btw, feel free to mention piwik on https://www.transifex.com/customers/open-source/ |
in case noone noticed... transifex is closed source : transifex/transifex-old-core#206 (comment) |
I know. Well, isn't github closed source, too? |
Hi, currently Piwik uses oTranCe – the online translation center as the translations software behind http://translations.piwik.org/ That solution is very primitive compared to modern solutions like http://translatewiki.net (free/open source) or https://www.transifex.com/ (free/semi-closed source). If moving to one of those services is not an option, please add an export/import feature for a format supported by Virtaal
I'm very happy to translate Piwik (to Norwegian Bokmål), but using http://translations.piwik.org/ is painstakingly slow because there are no translation suggestions, automatic translation of identical strings (from other projects) and so on.
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